Charles Dugué, France Energie Eolienne
Release Date: 2009-11-02
Charles Dugué, was interviewed by GreenTechFocus while President of France Energie Eolienne, to share his optimism on the prospects of developing the wind energy in France and his views on the future of EU-China cooperation on Renewable Energy.You created the French subsidiary of Vestas in 2001. What was your background before that?
I am a French engineer from a school called INSA. After that, I completed a Masters in Environmental Engineering in the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago.
How did you end up focusing on the wind industry? Was it by chance or were you a visionary?
Unfortunately, it is by chance. I met Jean-Michel Germa who had the vision that wind energy should be more developed. I worked for him for 8.5 years before starting with Vestas. That was how it all developed.
At that time in 2001 it was still sort of the early days for the wind industry in France?
It was a key date for wind energy in France because the government decided to put a decent price on wind energy power feed-in tariffs. In June 2001 the government put in place a new feed-in tariff that kicked off the real development of wind energy. Before that, the feed-in tariff was so low that we needed to find subsidies on the European, local or regional level. It was a completely different business.
What have been the milestones in the development of the French wind industry since then?
This feed-in tariff has allowed the beginning of the real development of the wind industry because people can now determine the long-term revenue and therefore develop projects. In 2007, France was the third largest European market behind Germany and Spain. Even though we are still far behind these two countries, it is a very good sign.
What are your expectations for the development of the manufacturing and service industry? Do you think there is room in Europe for a real French wind industry?
I think that history has shown that wherever the wind market has developed, there has also been the development of a local industry. The development of the wind industry started of course with Denmark, which has a very strong wind industry. Then it moved to Germany which now also has become a strong player. The next country to develop was Spain, and it too has some strong actors. Currently, major developments are taking place in China and the USA as both countries are developing their own manufacturers supported by strong domestic demand. I believe that if there are strong signs of really solid developments of wind energy in France, then there will be room for at least one wind turbine manufacturer. We currently have one small wind turbine manufacturer which is Vergnet. However, these are two very different markets that we are talking about. Vergnet has chosen a niche of turbines that can be erected and dismantled without cranes and is of course a leader in his niche and we are very proud of this company. I was referring more to also having a wind turbine manufacturer in the core business of large wind turbines.
Are there any promising companies with the potential to operate in this mainstream turbine market?
Well, there have been a few attempts that are still going on. The key industry players in France have purchased shares in wind turbine manufacturers. AREVA bought shares in Repower which it sold to Indian wind turbine manufacturer Suzlon after a bidding war. At present, AREVA is a major shareholder in German wind turbine manufacturer Multibrid. Similarly, Alstom has purchased Spanish wind turbine manufacturer Ecotècnia which is now developing rapidly. These two companies can start activities but there is also room from more companies that purchase a license and start manufacturing from zero, but they will have to start with a turbine that already exists.
If you were the entrepreneur to set up this company, how would you do that?
The market is definitely there since France will need to install 2,000 MW of wind power capacity per year. Today, concentrating on constructing 100 MW per year, which is only 5% of this market, is already a good start for a new entrant. I am confident that there is a possibility. Of course, the current economic crisis might affect the creation of new companies, so it will not be that easy to find funds to start that company at this time. I am sure that there are some people who have the courage and the vision in France. I do not expect there could be more than one or two domestic wind turbine manufacturers to succeed in France, but one or two is very possible.
Does the same apply to component manufacturers and service providers?
There are also a dozen companies that manufacture components and export to the major wind turbine manufacturers such as Vestas and other turbine manufacturers. However, their turnover and volume remain rather small compared to that of a turbine manufacturer.
During France’s presidency of the European Council, Sarkozy has been a strong supporter of the Climate and Energy Package that was approved by the member states. Is he also an equally strong supporter of renewable energy in France?
He has sort of a double language at the moment. He is a strong supporter of renewable energy and every time he can claim it, he does. But at the same time, he always adds a sentence which is a little bit against wind energy. One of his famous former sentences is that it is limited to industrial areas. Recently he said that wind turbines do not look too good in the French landscape. With Sarkozy unfortunately we do not really have strong support for wind energy.
Also, Minister Borloo is playing an important role. Last year, he announced different measures to develop renewable energies. He is mainly addressing the issues of installing solar power on houses, raising energy efficiency though better insulated houses. For wind right now, he is more obscure about what is going to come. It is clear that France keeps saying that it will do its job in meeting the 20% European target, which means 23% renewable energy in France. It is clear to me that this cannot be done without wind power. Nevertheless when it comes to being concrete about how we could do it, this is where we start to have more questions and less political will.
Which role should utilities, such as EDF and GDF SUEZ, and industrial companies such as, Alstom and AREVA, play in the development of the French wind sector?
They do play a big role politically because they have a very strong political impact. Also, these companies can absorb little hiccups in the market and prevent local developers from going bankrupt during a slowdown. The fact that these large companies are supporting the market means that if the market suddenly develops they have the ability to follow the growth, where small companies would not be able to.
How do you see opportunities for cooperation between the French companies and Chinese companies? Could France be an interesting point for entry into Europe for Chinese manufacturers?
It certainly is. Right now, Chinese companies are mainly occupied with their own market which has been the case in every country. The Danish companies concentrated around most of their attention on their national market for many years and once their market matured they became more active in exports. I do not think that the Chinese market right now has reached that level. The Chinese market is huge and it is always complex to export. Maybe in a few years the Chinese will start to expand to overseas markets and begin to export.
At the moment France is one of the largest markets for new installations in Europe. What do you expect the French wind industry to look like in 5 years?
We are not the first market in Europe, but Germany is a declining market. There are also ambitions to develop the offshore market but offshore is still questionable. I have been in the wind industry for more than 16 years and we have always talked about very large developments offshore, but it is still a very small part of the market. If it is going to develop as Germany thinks, then it will keep Germany at a high level. Otherwise, we could very well be in the first position.
Jacques Chirac will always be remembered for going to China and selling trains and planes to the Chinese. Would not it be beautiful if Sarkozy could be remembered for going to China to sell French renewable energy initiatives?
It would be wonderful. Right now he is going to sell more nuclear power plants than wind turbines, but I see it more important to strengthen cooperation between the two countries than France developing its own wind turbines and going to sell them in China.
Is it possible to develop a strong wind industry in a country where the nuclear tradition is very strong?
Yes. It is clearly difficult because the French people have been raised with the idea that we need clean energy, while we now have to recognize the difference between clean and renewable. In this century our energy mix will be broadened, which will require a change of mindset in France. Our main electricity provider EDF generates most of its electricity in nuclear power stations and the French people have no idea of how different the energy mix is in other countries.
About 80% of the French people support wind energy according to various polls, and industrial projects have gained 80% support, which is exceptional. The remaining 20% of the population is making a lot of noise and they also have great political influence. That is our problem. It is hard to cooperate with the 20%.
Which message would you like to send to China on behalf of the French wind industry?
I think that China is doing very well in developing its renewable energy industries, in particular wind. China is setting a very good example, and I hope that the administration in the USA will send a similar signal. That will help to develop wind energy in the world, and as a consequence, in France.
| Company: | France Energie Eolienne |
| Position: | Former President |
| Country: | France |