Michael Wenzel, Reis Robotics
Release Date: 2009-11-30
We are here in Walter-Reis-Strasse with Reis Robotics in a small town in Germany where, as is often the case, the roots of the company are tied to those of the founder. I would like to give you the opportunity to briefly take us through the history of the company and how it has transformed over time to where it is positioned today.Our company indeed is 100% family owned, founded by Walter Reis. As you also correctly concluded, Mr. Reis comes from a small town of 8,000 people. The business began as a “one-man show”, in 1957, where he was the only member of staff. Skipping the early years, at the beginning of the 1970s he decided to focus more on robotics. These were the early days of robotics, so Reis Robotics was one of only a few robotics companies worldwide, most of which operated on the preliminary stages of technology. His business was focused on innovation and leading technology, always coming up with new ideas. The company’s approach has always been the systems integration and turnkey delivery of systems. It has never been the goal of Reis Robotics to mass produce robots, instead it considers the whole systems with a complete approach, so in comparison to other companies, the company is not the biggest manufacturer of mass produced robots. For many years, this has proved to be the right business model and given the company its positioning in today’s market.
Over the past few years, Reis Robotics has moved into the solar business. The company was able to make a fast start in this area, since we were able to transfer knowledge gained from other areas, such as automotives and appliances, to the application field of the solar industry. Thus Reis Robotics developed quicker than its competition, enabling it to create the first fully automatic PV module. The company is, however, only active in the module fab area, so it only deals with automated module manufacturing lines. As an example, in the past we produced car windscreen applications for the automotive industry, and applications where we fully assembled window frames. Thus we were able to transfer this knowledge in dealing with glass and window frames, to related PV assembly; our past experiences helped us make a quick transfer into the PV module segment.
As you said you aim to provide system solutions. In the end a company that wants to start manufacturing solar panels cannot just come to you; they need to go to various suppliers to have a full production line. Does that mean that in the longer team you would like to integrate vertically and offer a wider range of products? Or do you go with your core business and stick with what you are good at?
Reis Robotics will stick with module manufacturing, whilst maintaining some focus on innovation and development. At the moment, the company is developing new technologies – partially on its own and partially with partners – to bring innovation into module assembly and module manufacturing. An example of innovation is with bus bar soldering, which was traditionally done manually and then with inductive soldering; we have now developed a method for laser soldering. In Reis Group there is a small company called Reis LaserTech, which is our development center for laser technology, it is with the transfer of their experience that Reis Robotics was able to produce laser soldering for the solar industry. Thus the company’s processes include innovation, but it is always focused on module assembly.
If we look at the company from a bigger picture, you operate in the automotive industry which is of course very big in Germany. When you entered the solar industry, everything that was going on in the industry was happening in Germany. There was no immediate need to look beyond your borders, whereas now you are a very international company. How has this process worked for you? When did the company really start to look beyond Germany and become international?
The Reis Robotics Group has been international for many years; its oldest subsidiary is Reis USA, which is almost 30 years old. Aside from the countries in which Reis Robotics has subsidiaries, there are also representatives or cooperation partners worldwide. This network was, of course, in place beforehand, so that when a German customer wanted to expand beyond its borders, the Reis Robotics could provide assistance from its branches. There was not much need for PR, particularly in Europe, since companies in the solar industry became aware of us and got in touch – such as in Spain or Italy – and we were easily able to service them through our subsidiary. So one form of internationalization was through direct contact by foreign customers; a second way was accompanying German customers when they wanted to install a second assembly plant elsewhere. The final approach to internationalisation, which is more important nowadays, is to focus our activities in new areas such as China and the Far East, where we also have subsidiaries, but Reis Robotics is not yet as well known as we are in Europe.
Before looking at your activities in countries like China, as you said the financial and economic crisis has had an impact on your business just as it has in any other business around the world. This is also a moment to invest in the future and rethink where you are heading. I can imagine that the automotive business might be slowing down while the solar business is picking up. What you do in R&D today defines where you will grow in the future. What are your R&D priorities at the moment?
Reis Robotics showcased many new innovations at the recent show in Hamburg. Again, these innovations are mainly individual processes; aside from the laser soldering, we have also developed an automated assembly step which allows us to fully automate junction boxes to a module, including freeing the contacts which are hidden under the tedlar-foil by getting rid of the tedlar-foil itself. The old approach was to do it manually, now we melt the foil with a laser, followed by an automatic assembly step of soldering the J-box. Reis Robotics took the first half of the year slightly more slowly to concentrate on R&D, and these innovative steps which ultimately displayed in Hamburg.
As you already explained, you operate in China today. When was the first time that you went to China?
I first went around 1998-1999, so it has been several years, but in those days solar did not even enter into the discussion. Today Reis Robotics deals with many industries and applications, including welding, assembly, and casting robots, in fact more or less any industrial application a robot can do, we are doing. China, 10 years ago was completely different; you were not even allowed to start your own enterprise. This changed in about 2000, when, once deemed permissible by the government, Reis Robotics began cooperation with a WOFE (Wholly Owned Foreign Enterprise), which we still have today. Thus even In the Chinese market it has had to be a step-by-step process.
How has the experience been for you as the head of this company, doing business in China?
It is obviously completely different. I travel a lot in the US, South America, and all over Europe. But in doing business in China I had to make the biggest step culturally speaking, since all of the other countries have very western cultures. As far as business methods are concerned, they are the same the world over: customers want the best product and services for their money, so logically Chinese customers have the same criteria as everyone else. However, the Chinese have a very different mentality, in regards to approaches to entering projects; you have to learn new rules of behavior, but once you get past that learning curve, it is just another new marketplace. With so much potential and many huge opportunities in China, it is certainly worth all the investment, in spite of adjustments one has to make to adapt to a new country.
The rise of China, for the most part, has been built on an abundance of cheap labour; nowadays, in addition to rising labour cost, China is moving into a high tech industry with higher quality levels. For the first time they might begin to be interested in your product; ten years ago I can imagine your market in China was very small, but today it is growing very rapidly. What is the main reason why these potential customers turn to you? Why do they want to learn about robotics?
We asked ourselves the same question. Even ten years ago we asked ourselves if it made sense to sell a robot which can replace a human worker to a country whose labour costs are almost nothing. Fortunately, one of the most important decision-making criteria today is quality. The human worker cannot perform at the same quality as a robot can. A person can have their ups and downs, whereas a robot performs at the same quality all day long. Quality is fundamental, especially with high volume products, and even more so for PV module, since there are long lasting expectations from the end user. We really must be sure that certain steps in production are undertaken with the optimum quality level. If we sell PV lines to China, the degree of automation is not as nearly as high as in Europe because there remain certain steps where a human worker is still cheaper, such as in palletising or an easy handling step, having a robot to carry out these steps may not necessarily improve the quality of the product, but nonetheless such steps are still automated here in Europe.
In addition to solar what are the other industries where you see the greatest potential for your product in China?
We are traditionally very strong in welding and casting. They are Reis Robotics’ fundamental industries because even the simplest structures required welding and casting. High tech casting in Europe is a real science; simple casting carried out manually by pouring liquid metal by hand into a mold, still exists in China, again because of low labour costs, whilst you would never see it in Europe. Working condition expectations also have a lot to do with it; Germans wouldn’t expect to work in extremely hot environments in heavy protection clothes, whereas work in the casting industry is a much more attractive job prospect in China, thus there are always people who will do it. However, when it is a question of quality, large numbers of casting robots are sold, even in China, because in the manual casting process can be very repetitive, so it id difficult to maintain accuracy. The casting industry is very broad; it is mostly automotive but other products which have metal components inside may incorporate casting processes in their manufacturing chain.
If we look at solar there is a very fine line between a competitor and a potential partner. Who do you consider to be your main partners and competitors?
These days the market does not necessarily require 100% turnkey solutions for PVs; this is due to the fact that there are costly components such as stringers and laminators. In the past there have been occasions where customers bought turnkeys from Reis including these components, whereas nowadays the customers buys directly from the supplier of the laminator, buying the laminator and the stringer directly. This means that Reis Robotics becomes the system integrator, interconnecting these components and adding processes like framing, contacting, and inspection using our expertise. In the end we are responsible for ramping up the whole line, which means there needs to be a strong relationship and cooperation between Reis and key players in the market who provide stringers, laminators, and flashers. These sorts of partnerships therefore become a number one priority. We retain relationships with companies which we collaborated with in the past, such as 3S, Mayer Laminators, TeamTechnik stringers, and work with them behind the scenes to clarify interfaces and exchange information, in order to make the turnkey approach as easy as possible. Ideally the end user does not even need to know about this behind the scene collaboration, as long as our engineers make sure that the product works, which is all that matters.
One of the things you see in China is that in the first phase most of the companies there setting up buy turnkey units from primarily German companies. In the longer term they would like to integrate local components into their production chain and that is where you can offer something that is different from many other companies. The moment they don’t want a perfect turnkey solution coming from one company you can provide something very interesting. How do you see the opportunities in this development? Is it necessary for you the same way you work here with companies to make sure you can link everything? How important is it work with Chinese partners to be at the forefront of this development?
This is an interesting question, though it may be a little premature, since we have to see who will be the main players that grow out of this market. Right now there many companies who offer laminators, for example, Reis cannot get in touch with all of them to start interface discussions or clarify technical interfaces. In the end, since we also have to take economics into account, we never produce the system together since it requires too much effort to clarify the interfaces. It is not viable to do it in advance either, and rely on the manufacturer becoming a big player in the market. Thus we prefer to see which players will grow fast enough to become amongst three to five in the segment; then as soon as that is established we will be able to work on project where a customer specifies what needs to be interfaced. Our projects are therefore always market-driven, particularly since nowadays there are many new players joining the market, and not all of them will survive. The same goes for module manufacturing; many module manufactures are listed in China but apparently only about 20-30% of them will survive the crisis. Thus it is increasingly important to know who is on the winning side, because you need your partner to be the winner!
Does that mean that in China you are starting to position yourself differently; not so much as the robotics group but as the player who can connect a customer to anyone they need to provide the proper solutions?
The approach is the same because we can make the same statements here in Germany, Europe, and the US. We can connect to anyone willing to share their interface information with us; whatever the customer demands, we will do. Technically nowadays we can partner with anybody, so the question now is what we are prepared to do and who to perform the critical interfacing steps with, given the limited resources. It is a matter of deciding on Reis’ priorities, and considering the market position of the most likely players. When customers in Europe wanted complete turnkey units, they consequently also came to us asking for their second or third line, specifying certain brands as laminators or stringers but leaving us with the decisions concerning the interface. Reis had to learn to be open and flexible, to adapt to new products and interfaces. I expect the case to be the same in China, and since we have the experience, we can once again transfer our knowledge to another market – giving us a head start.
We have talked with companies that we have met with about the role of China in their development. A company like Applied Materials is so global that China naturally becomes one of their main markets but they also focus on India, the US, and Europe. Many other companies, such as Centrotherm, Roth & Rau, and Gebr. Schmid, say that China is their main market where they dedicate the bulk of their attention. Where do you find yourself in this balance between different markets?
Resources are obviously limited for every company. Reis Robotics has a very big customer base here in Europe which it must not neglect, and a similarly large customer base in the US. Quite frankly, I think the US is just as interesting a market as China, particularly with the new Obama administration’s plans in terms of green energy. Interestingly in Hamburg, we met Chinese customers with plans to start a factory either here or in the US; this would be of great interest to us, since we are well established in the US and have a local establishment in China, so we would easily be able to accompany a Chinese customer there. Having already established contacts in a country such as the US is extremely beneficial to the customer.
I can imagine that if someone told Mr. Reis in 1957 that his “one-man show” would turn into a company that would help Chinese companies to enter Europe or the US he would have laughed very hard. What are the main surprises you think will be coming in the coming years and the main things you want to achieve?
Surprises are inherently hard to predict; I’m not very good with a crystal ball. However, we know that the world is becoming more and more global, so a company needs to be represented in more countries and markets around the world, you cannot afford to miss out on an important market like China. With regards to the goals we want to achieve, Reis hopes to continue fulfilling our claim of being a leader in technical integration, and in addition, be able to follow our customers wherever they decide to go. It must be seen as an investment in capital goods. Reis Robotics uses complex, high-level, and state of the art technology, thus you cannot expect every customer in all corners of the world to have the qualifications to run the technology without our support. We therefore either need to be there for every customer whenever there is a problem, or we need to train their people and help run their production. Again, the customer defines this goal. If the customer starts a plant in India, we go there; if a customer wants to go to Singapore, then we’re already active there, with Reis Singapore.
As a last question, what is the contribution that you would like to make to the development of the solar industry in China in the coming years?
Reis Robotics is always striving for new technology, we are very innovative with many new patents and ideas. The company can bring a lot of new technology to the market, which has been proven in our Western plants, it’s not just talk. It is technology that will improve productivity, quality, and any other measurement relevant for a production factory. Reis will add value and expand production parameters, this is a big thing to offer and I am sure that Chinese customers will honor that. Reis Robotics is already in discussions with potential Chinese customers and has already received a lot of positive feedback, since we can offer unique patented technology. The Chinese community still has a lot of new things to discover, we are willing to continue the process of bringing such things to China. In the long run it is a win-win situation for both parties, which is how things should be in the business world.
| Company: | Reis Robotics |
| Position: | General Manager |
| Country: | Germany |